Mothballs...

iburnh2o's picture

Been waiting for someone to bring up this one. Mothballs has long been a diy additive for mileage. Found this website searching additives and thought I'd post it here:

Mothballs for mileage

My person experience goes back 25 years when I was but a youngster. One of first mileage tricks I tried. Used off and on for years. Have found it usually improves mileage and economy. However I also believe it caused the filter to plug and took out the pump on one vehicle I tried it on.

Anyone else played with this?

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Mothballs...

ssheen's picture

I have read about it in one of George's books, but never tried it myself.

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Mothballs...

mpgmike's picture

Holy son of a.... good frickin grief! :shock: FIVE MOTH BALLS PER GALLON OF GAS?!?!? At that rate it would clog fuel lines! My experience with moth balls is that they dissolve too slowly to be used at that extreme rate. After about 2 months of driving the rate I drive I'd have a tank full of moth balls. Gauge would never read empty because the float would get hung up on moth balls. Run out of gas, go fill it up and it only takes 2.5 gallons on a 16 gallon tank! That is if the gas pump nozzle would fit into the filler neck.

I have played with moth balls containing naphtalene (sp?) but at a rate of one ball every other tank or so. Can't say that at that rate it has caused any mechanical problems for me.

Mike

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Mothballs...

iburnh2o's picture

mpgmike wrote:

Holy son of a.... good frickin grief! :shock: FIVE MOTH BALLS PER GALLON OF GAS?!?!? At that rate it would clog fuel lines! My experience with moth balls is that they dissolve too slowly to be used at that extreme rate. After about 2 months of driving the rate I drive I'd have a tank full of moth balls. Gauge would never read empty because the float would get hung up on moth balls. Run out of gas, go fill it up and it only takes 2.5 gallons on a 16 gallon tank! That is if the gas pump nozzle would fit into the filler neck.

I have played with moth balls containing naphtalene (sp?) but at a rate of one ball every other tank or so. Can't say that at that rate it has caused any mechanical problems for me.

Mike

Yeah, 5 per gallon ? !! thats what I thought. I was running about 1 per 5 gallons most of the time. A friend on mine in Canada put in about 5 per gallon. He claimed a 30% increase in mileage but said the engine ran hotter, something I never experienced at the levels I used. As always..use at your own risk!

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Mothballs...

katman's picture

How much would 150 moth balls cost? It'd take an hour just to poke them in that little restricter in the filler neck!

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Mothballs...

E=mc2's picture

Here some info I've collected:

"Get a bag of Mothballs. It will increase the Octane and
Better Gas Mileage than all the Additives, They sell. I learned from my Great GrandFather. Good for All Carburators only.
Do not use it for Fuel Injectors. Use a Old Socking and Put
the two Monthballs in the Socking and Down in the Gas tank Funnel a little ways. Mothballs should not be droped into the tank."

"I've done something like this. I read somewhere that you
use 1 mothball per every three (3) gallons of gas. Make
sure they are the 99.9% napthalyene ones otherwise you
will have problems. I didn't use the stocking method though.
I crushed mine up and completely dissolved them in gasoline before pouring them into the tank. Only gave me 2 -3 mpg improvements though."

"You purchase white solid mothballs. Be careful, here it
difficult to find real Naphtaline. Supermarkets sell Paradichlorobenzene to repell insects and that's not
good for engines. You place several balls in the air box,
before or after the filter as you can and let them sublimate. They will change directly from solid to gaseous releasing
very small amount of naphtalene gas (what you can smell).

This gas acts as a catalysator, I mean that the reaction between gasoline and oxygen is better and more complete
when this third gas is present.

You immediately can measure and neat decrease on CO,
HC and NOx and a better CO² showing a better reaction.
You also can feel better torque/power and in several
cases will note a better mileage by 15%. (Fifteen !)

This is also convenient for diesel engines. They also emit
far less black smoke.

During WW2 we had to drive with pure naphtaline but
at present it's not economically realist.

As long as you use the 99.9% napthylene mothballs, no
damage will occur. I've been using them 1 mothball per
gallon for years with no problems what-so-ever. I always
crush them up and disolve them in gas first before putting
in my tank. Gets me a couple of mpg more."

I tried putting some in a mesh bag and in an air cleaner housing...they eventually sublimed or whatever and were gone...lasted quite a while...didn't see an mpg gain though.

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Mothballs...

diamondlarry's picture

Quote:

As long as you use the 99.9% napthylene mothballs, no
damage will occur. I've been using them 1 mothball per
gallon for years with no problems what-so-ever. I always
crush them up and disolve them in gas first before putting
in my tank. Gets me a couple of mpg more."

I think this would be the best way to use mothballs. I also tried putting mothballs in my air cleaner and didn't notice any mpg increase. If anyone tries this method, make sure you put them before the air cleaner. I had them after the air cleaner at first in a sock and they ended up getting sucked into the the throttle body after they had shrunk a little. Unfortunately this happened right after I had floored it to get across a busy road. I'm sure glad I have a stick so I could just shove the clutch in and shut the engine off. Then it took a couple of minutes to dig the mothballs out. :shock:
PS: I forgot to mention that I bought the pure napthalene mothballs from my local Meijer.

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Mothballs...

E=mc2's picture

http://www.mail-archive.com/interact%40listserv.capital-master.com/msg00...

"Originally, I was getting 240 miles on a tank, and now, by doing
nothing other than adding 1 moth ball per 4 gallons, I got 440 as of yesterday. My vehicle runs better than ever (a 2003 Town and Country) and where my fuel pump was diagnosed near failure at the beginning of my three-month trial, it is now in better shape than ever. This alone will save me over 600 in repairs."

Beleive it or not....

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Trying out mothballs

AmirBukfifti's picture

OK, here goes.

I've got a 1993 Toyota pickup with a 2.4L 4cylinder 22RE engine. This truck was sold in California. Other than it passing the Texas smog test with flying colors and me having to get exhaust parts from California, I don't see what makes this truck any more special than any other sold elsewhere in the states but supposedly it is more fuel efficient and has lower emissions.

Right now I'm getting anywhere from 20-22 MPG. Much of it depends on my driving methods, which have mellowed with age, and whether or not my bedcover is on.

This truck only goes back and forth to work. Without my bedcover I can typically go a week between fillups. With the bedcover, I get about 6.5 weekdays.

Well, I filled the truck up and then remembered I wanted to do this. So I got the 99% Napthalene moth balls and went with the 1 mothball to 5 gallons ratio. I've never been able to put more than 15 gallons in the tank, so three balls it was. Nothing fancy, just popped them into the tank when I got them home.

I plan to leave the truck sit for the weekend and see what kind of performance/mileage I get next week. I'd love to get two weeks or at least a couple more days from a tank of gas.

I'm not being as scientific as I want to be, but for now I just want to see if I notice anything different and play it by ear.

If this works well enough, I'll probably try adding more but dissolving them in a gas can first.

Wish me luck!

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Re: Trying out mothballs

iburnh2o's picture

AmirBukfifti wrote:

I plan to leave the truck sit for the weekend and see what kind of performance/mileage I get next week. I'd love to get two weeks or at least a couple more days from a tank of gas.

I'm not being as scientific as I want to be, but for now I just want to see if I notice anything different and play it by ear.

If this works well enough, I'll probably try adding more but dissolving them in a gas can first.

Wish me luck!

Good luck Amir. Love your avatar :lol:

Haven't done for this some time. Might have overdone it once in the past. Fuel pump and filter went out on an oldsmobile shortly after I started using them. I've found I prefer to disolve in a bottle with acetone, gasoline, isopropyl or whatever else I might be testing at the time.

It's really difficult to test all these different additive combinations and driving habits/differences in traffic etc can affect mileage more than the change in mileage from some of the devices and additives we are trying to test. I've been thinking about trying some of these additives on small engines. Carefully meter the fuel into a container and measure run times at a constant load/rpm. This should work well for fuel additives, and maybe a few other mods though we are dealing with a small air cooled engine with a carburetor.

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Day One

AmirBukfifti's picture

Well, I took the truck to work and it threw a rod! :shock: Now I get as many miles to the gallon as I care to walk with the can.

Just kidding :lol:

I've had some problems with overheating in the past couple of months, which I think the recent radiator flush fixed. While reading some posts I was still kinda' concerned about heat. However my fears were all for not. My "dummy" factory temp guage never got above normal. Either it is running cooler than ever :D or the guage has finally died :roll:.

Anyhow it *seems* like I didn't have to push the pedal down so much today, but then I might just be thinking about it too much and it just *feels* like it.

Since today turned out to be an atypical day, I've decided to go ahead and count mileage after all. So much for my plans to be totally sloppy about it.

I'll post my figures once I fill up again. Hopefully that will be in a week and a half.

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Mothballs...

Typrus's picture

BTW.............. diesel Tacoma or Tundra is coming in 07. Thats a rumor I've heard at 6 different Toyota dealerships, and a few word of mouth things in RL and internet.

I think that the main issue with the stocking would be it plugging the in-tank filter. Mesh would just add up tank after tank unless you fished it out. A straight drop might be the best thought? As long as your tank has one of those simple mesh in-tank filters.

I'll have to try that on my moms 96 TDI Passat.... It smokes like a demon at startup. Its more efficient than a Hollywood smog-machine lol.......

So what are potential repercussions? Similar to acetone? i.e. natural rubber damage, older seal damage, etc? Does it chew on soft aluminum at all? How about copper?
O2 sensor affected at all? What about the cat or other emissions things?

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Mothballs...

E=mc2's picture

You are supposed to put them IN the tank...no sniffing allowed! :lol:

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Mothballs...

iburnh2o's picture

E=mc2 wrote:

You are supposed to put them IN the tank...no sniffing allowed! :lol:

sounds like RecoveringGasaholic is huffing mothballs eh?

I did this on my old carby vehicles a few times. My "Uncle LeRoy" had told me about it. My current efi project doesn't lend itself well to it, with the funnel K&N style air cleaner on it.

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Mothballs...

iburnh2o's picture

RecoveringGasaholic wrote:

Maybe I should be renamed RecoveringMothBallaholic! I like to put them in the basement and the attic to make the whole house smell.

But seriously we used to put moth balls in baggies in the air cleaner...well I never did personally. In fact I think we stopped when we had a "freak out" because one of the baggies got sucked in :(

Be carefull with them. Aren't all that good for humans to breath.

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Mothballs...

E=mc2's picture

I remember long long ago...my mother hanging up an apple with a bunch of cloves stuck in it in place of mothballs in a closet because they weren't too healthy outside of an enclosed area...like a plastic bag.

It worked...I couldn't stand to be in that closet very long...and I'm not a moth. I think...

She did it as much to keep us kids out of the walk in type closet as for the moths....worked.

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Mothballs...

mpgmike's picture

So maybe we could load up small chunks of apples with cloves and drop them in the tank. Should probably try it on the lawn mower first before ruining the car's engine :rolleyes:

Mike

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Mothballs...

iburnh2o's picture

mpgmike wrote:

So maybe we could load up small chunks of apples with cloves and drop them in the tank. Should probably try it on the lawn mower first before ruining the car's engine :rolleyes:

Mike

I once had a Volare in which somebody had put crab apples into the gas tank.

Cut fuel use dramatically..... cuz it didnt run.

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ARGH!

AmirBukfifti's picture

I just did some rough calculations and came up with 15 MPG! :x

Then I realized that I have bigger tires than I should. :roll: The local Discount Tire didn't have the 195R14s that I needed and talked me into 205R14s. I agreed, knowing the difference it makes with my speedo and my odometer, but didn't care or remember until now.

Does anyone know how to recalculate my mileage based on the larger sized tires? I'm on day 4 and still have a little over half a tank. I can't possibly be getting 15 MPG.

According to Yahoo Maps, my round trip to work and back is about 40 miles, but I'm only adding about 33 miles per day to my odometer. I recalculated using the ratio of the difference and still only came out with 19 MPG.

I guess the bright side is that my sloppy method of guestimation based on days between fillups is looking pretty good right now. :) However, if I'm only getting 5 days per tankful, I'm only getting 13 MPG. :(

Man, do I need a baseline! And perhaps a more fuel efficient vehicle.

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Mothballs...

mpgmike's picture

Hit an interstate that has the mile markers. Travel at least 30 or 40 miles and check the sticks against your odometer. Figure out how many miles you must add or subtract to get actual. Then figure out the percentage difference.

For example, if your odometer says you traveled 28 miles, but the mile markers say you traveled 29, then you have to add 1 mile per 28 recorded on your odometer. So if you travel 355 odometer miles, 355/28=12.67. So add 355+12.67=367.67. Then divide your gallons into that new number.

Did I sufficiently confuse you and make things worse than you ever imagined?

Mike

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Mothballs...

AmirBukfifti's picture

No, I work with numbers all day. That makes a helluva lot of sense. 8)

Sometimes you need to step back and take another look. Thanks.

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Mothballs...

AmirBukfifti's picture

OK, here's what I've figured out.

I went here http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=7 to determine the diameter of each of the tires.

195/75R14 tires are 20" in diameter and ~62.83" in circumference. The slightly over sized 205/75R14 are 20.4" in diameter and ~64.088" in circumference. So the formula should be:

Mo X 20.4/20 = Mr or Mo X 1.02 = Mr

Where Mo is the odometer mileage and Mr is the actual milage. Which really isn't that much of a difference.

So I'm getting about 16 MPG in a 2.4L 4-cylinder minitruck. YEESH!

I think I need to concern myself with other more basic tasks on this truck before trying to get more miles out of mothballs. :oops: I'm certain I've probably gotten better milage than I have without them, but I need to look into why it sucks so much gas in the first place.

Part of it may be the slightly increased load from the leverage of taller tires and perhaps more rubber on the road, but I doubt that's the main culprit.

The truck has over 130k on it. Is it unreasonable to expect better gas mileage than this from a 14 year old, 4 cylinder/auto truck with that kind of milage?

Time to do some more research.

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Mothballs...

E=mc2's picture

You could try here...

http://www.csgnetwork.com/tireinfo4calc.html

I get +2.31%.

I been hanging around some Toyota 4X4 lists...they say that these trucks lose mpg with bigger tires...but then they are talking REALLY BIG tires...don't think the upgrade you did should cause a problem.

You do need to add about 2.3% to your indicated miles though.

Here's something I happened across...

"I've been making the same effort with my '88 Toyota
4wd 5speed with 222K miles and I manage between 27.5 and 29.7mpg. This includes some city driving, perhaps 25%, and some hauling, perhaps 15% of the time and up to ~ 3/4 ton in the back: truck weighs ~3,800 unwashed, rust bucket and lots of tools behind the seat."

An '88 is not a '93...but I'd say you should be able to do at least as well?

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Mothballs...

AmirBukfifti's picture

That's still 16 MPG. That's shameful. My 5.9L Dodge got better milage.

I'd love to get 27-29 MPG. Now I have a base target goal.

Thanks for the tip.

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Mothballs...

Pinhead's picture

AmirBukfifti wrote:

That's still 16 MPG. That's shameful. My 5.9L Dodge got better milage.

I'd love to get 27-29 MPG. Now I have a base target goal.

Thanks for the tip.

I used to drive a 95 Nissan 4wd pickup and it, too, got about 17mpg. Must be a poor design...

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Mothballs...

Pinhead's picture

So what about using mothballs with water injection? Crush the mothballs and mix them in the water, let it evaporate into the vacuum??

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Re: 1 mothball in 4 gallons?? 4 gallons of WHAT?

whitevette's picture

E=mc2 wrote:

http://www.mail-archive.com/interact%40listserv.capital-master.com/msg00...

"Originally, I was getting 240 miles on a tank, and now, by doing
nothing other than adding 1 moth ball per 4 gallons, I got 440 as of yesterday. My vehicle runs better than ever (a 2003 Town and Country) and where my fuel pump was diagnosed near failure at the beginning of my three-month trial, it is now in better shape than ever. This alone will save me over 600 in repairs."

Beleive it or not....

Really? This is Bad Science (BS) at its worst! I'll not.... #-o

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Re: Mothballs...

theborg0's picture

hey all im going to get some moth balls tonight and try them in the air filter box on my 4.7 dodge ram, mpg at the moment is a stunning 14.2 around town I will keep an eye on it for two tanks and post results here.

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Re: Mothballs...

johnfnielsen's picture

I use naphtalene flakes instead of mothballs and I dissolve them in acetone that I add to my fuel. acetone ratio is 2ml for every liter ie 50 liter tank add 100ml acetone and 10gms of mothballs. Small amount but so far no issue with filters or fuel pump. Not so with BA that clogged my fuel filter!

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Re: Mothballs...

E=mc2's picture

I'm currently testing 1/4 oz MBs per 10 gallons (with iso)...which is near what a patent recommended. Said that any more caused black smoke.

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Re: Mothballs...

abyssin3's picture

As I know, mothballs act by dissolving carbon deposits. It's the effect of the moth poison they contain : the para-dichlorobenzen*. But this product is carcinogenic, and consequently, it's now replaced by another moth poison that does not dissolve carbon deposits. I searched mothballs with paradichlorobenzen but I don't find them.
I used old mothballs (the carcinogenic ones) every 30.000Km to clean engine and injectors. It was working well, with ~10 in the diesel tank.
Now , with mothballs without para dichlorobenzen, I have heard it doesn't work :-(

* paradichlorobenzen is also present in injectors cleaning products (but in lower concentrations)

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Re: Mothballs...

RoadWarrior's picture

Chlorinated hydrocarbons are present in some brake cleaners, and also in some typists whiteout thinners. Actually, one of the snakeoils has them in, forgot which one, either MMO or Seafoam.

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Re: Mothballs...

theborg0's picture

So i tried about half a box of the good moth balls in the aircleaner of my dodge ram and it made no noticable change in mpg or percieved power. So i thought i would try it in my omni as I seem to have an ideal set up i had replaced the carb with a weber 38dges carb and installed an airpan and hood scoop so i poured a whole box of the mothballs into the air pan and drove like that for a month. Power seemed up but it could have been wishfull thinking but the mpg gain from 27 to and from work to 31 is something i can prove. One thing i noticed is that since the airpan is directly over the intake/exhaust the mothballs seem to melt and dont seem to last even half as long as they did in the truck, I belive that the heat helps a great deal in getting enough naphthalene into the air.

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Re: Mothballs...

rmay635703's picture

Where can I buy naphathlene moth flakes? The balls don't seem to dissolve.

Also has anyone tested e85 with moth balls? If so did they dissolve better?

Thanx
Ryan

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