hydrogen peroxide and alcohol

88daytona's picture

I once sold this very product then started mixing my own. It does work! 1/2 bottle of Denatured Alcohol, 1 bottle of Hydrogen Peroxide, 1/2 can of 104+ Octane booster (which is probably mostly what you're putting in there with the other ingredients anyways). The bottle would have a tube from the top injecting air into the bottom of the bottle and there would be a vacuum hose with a limiter (about .020" hole) inside the manifold vacuum tube. It takes about 2-3 tanks full to reach it's fullest potential because the peroxide cleans the combustion chamber. I had a Jeep with NO emission controls on it at all and headers with no catalytic converter and it beat California Emissions! The bottle would last about 7000 miles and suddenly you notice a significant power loss (runs like it used to) and sure enough... it was out and time to refill. Gas mileage increased from 15-47% depending on the vehicle and the power by 10-20%.

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nrgisr, May 28 2004

This quote is from Here: http://www.halfbakery.com/idea/Hydrogen_20Peroxide_20Injection#1129260232

I am having a problem with how he is drawing it into the motor. I can't see him doing anything other than drawing the liquid into the motor through the orifice(.020). He doesn't say that specifically, and I must assume that the bubblier technique is to keep the solution mixed.

I will use one of the jets out of a Holley Jet Kit for the orifice so I can change the "Pill" more easier.

I wonder if there is enough aclohol to keep everything liquid since the seasons are a' changen'.

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hydrogen peroxide and alcohol

mpgmike's picture

With a bubbler the liquids vaporize according to their boiling/vapor point. It would seem to me that the alcohol would vaporize out leaving the water based hydrogen peroxides. I don't know what temperature hydrogen peroxide freezes at, but...

Mike

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hydrogen peroxide and alcohol

E=mc2's picture

Interesting idea...I had thought of trying to use hydrogen peroxide in some way myself.

Not sure those 3 liquids would even mix together very well...but I guess the air going to the bottom of the can would keep it mixed some?

What would work as an adjustable valve would be one of the model airplane gas engine valves.

I'm also assuming that liquid is being drawn in.

Not sure if there would be much of a power increase...no vacuum to speak of at WOT? Plenty at cruise though...where you would gain the mileage.

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hydrogen peroxide and alcohol

iburnh2o's picture

E=mc2 wrote:

Interesting idea...I had thought of trying to use hydrogen peroxide in some way myself.

Not sure those 3 liquids would even mix together very well...but I guess the air going to the bottom of the can would keep it mixed some?

What would work as an adjustable valve would be one of the model airplane gas engine valves.

I'm also assuming that liquid is being drawn in.

Not sure if there would be much of a power increase...no vacuum to speak of at WOT? Plenty at cruise though...where you would gain the mileage.

Wiseman of Eagle Research mentions hydrogen peroxide as a fuel. A few years ago there was a hydrogen peroxide injection system being sold for snow mobiles. It was claimed that it made all the fuel burn (I hear that claim alot). These were basically set up for use on 2 strokes. I remember the one site claiming to own the patent/technology and somebody else was copying/stealing it from them. Yet... I can't seem to find anything on the internet about it anymore....? As I recall you were to lean back the mixture when running this as when all the fuel was burning it could actually damage the engine...

China has recently debuted hydrogen peroxide cars :

Hydrogen Peroxide Car

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Re: hydrogen peroxide and alcohol

E=mc2's picture

88daytona wrote:

1/2 bottle of Denatured Alcohol, 1 bottle of Hydrogen Peroxide, 1/2 can of 104+ Octane booster (which is probably mostly what you're putting in there with the other ingredients anyways). The bottle would have a tube from the top injecting air into the bottom of the bottle and there would be a vacuum hose with a limiter (about .020" hole) inside the manifold vacuum tube.

Going to try mixing these liquids to see if they will mix.

Found that they mix real well...end result is a yellow-white fluid....but if you let it sit...the fluids separate...so a bubbler is needed to keep it homogenized. Using the Offroad type 104+Octane boost...denatured alcohol...drug store peroxide.

Set this up...using a small 6 oz test bottle. The mix will separate...the Octane Booster (oil?) from the peroxide/alcohol mix. When injecting liquid...there are no bubbles to speak of.

Unless a way could be found to both bubble the mix AND inject liquid.

If you use the above comment as a guide....looks like 32 oz of this mix is supposed to last for 7K miles...that's about 4.5 oz per 1000 miles. Doesn't seem too likely to me....for the expected benefits.

Have this valve already (see bottom of the page)...

http://members.tripod.com/~andygags/valves.htm

Will try running an air intake into a bottle going down into this mix and another from the bottom drawing liquid out and thru this valve.

The valve costs about $12 is is made for use with fuels and to handle a vacuum draw (won't work well with pressure). The main point is that it will adjust down to a very fine flow. Might need to use some goop on the threads to get a good seal though....bearing grease would work.

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hydrogen peroxide and alcohol

mpgmike's picture

Those same valves would work well on a vacuum actuated water injection system.

Mike

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hydrogen peroxide and alcohol

E=mc2's picture

It is a very small valve and you need to use 1/8" fuel line with it as found at mower parts shops....but it does the job....would be good for water injection also....

Think these might not be made anymore...but can still be found here and there.

DON'T just go to a hardware store and buy a so-called needle valve if you expect fine control of flow...won't happen...these are really shutoff valves.

Actual fine control needle valves are hard to find...espec without spending a fair amount for them.

Have been told that this valve works for gasoline vapor injection systems...

http://www.spmed.com/

...SEARCH for part number MV-333...$21

...can't say for sure.

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hydrogen peroxide and alcohol

diamondlarry's picture

Quote:

Unless a way could be found to both bubble the mix AND inject liquid.

I'm not sure this setup would draw any liquid into the engine. If I'm understanding this right, you run a hose down to just off the bottom of the can and run another hose out the top of the can. This would force all of the air drawn in to go through the liquid. Vapor would be the only thing drawn into the engine.

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hydrogen peroxide as fuel

whitecougar's picture

The Germans used H2O2 as engine supplement and discovered that it turns into an ACID in your engine when ignited!

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Re: hydrogen peroxide as fuel

diamondlarry's picture

whitecougar wrote:

The Germans used H2O2 as engine supplement and discovered that it turns into an ACID in your engine when ignited!

That can't be good. :shock:

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Re: hydrogen peroxide as fuel

iburnh2o's picture

whitecougar wrote:

The Germans used H2O2 as engine supplement and discovered that it turns into an ACID in your engine when ignited!

Yikes... top that with some oil additives with chlorinated flourcarbons and you could end up with a real problem.

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hydrogen peroxide and alcohol

nth697's picture

hi everybody, i have been reading alot of the site and like it alot but i see some things that dont jive with what i "know". so here is what i "know" about hydrogen peroxide.

water = H20 = 2 hydrogen atoms and one oxygen.
hydrogen peroxide = H202 = 2 hydrogen and 2 oxygen.

hydrogen peroxide is naturaly occuring and is also man made. basicly it is just a water molecule that has an extra oxygen weakly bonded to it (i wont explain the high school chemistry because i dont remember any of the vocabulary and ill get it wrong if i try). the important part of this that makes H202 usefull is that the oxygen bond is WEAK. shake a bottle of H202 and you have just disloged alot of the usefull oxygen. in an unsealed container H202 will loose just about all of its oxygen in 24hrs, it will simply fall off of the water and float away. what is left? H202 - 0 = H20, thats right plain old water is left. another thing to keep in mind is that H202 from a supermarket is only (correct me if im wrong) 3% H202. what does this mean? only 3% of the liquid in the bottle is H202 the rest is.... you got it water. hydroponics supply stores cary 35% H202, i recomend CAUTION if you want to exparament with this stuff. gloves and EYE PROTECTION MUST BE WORN. the gloves are no big deal, get a little on your skin and it will turn red and burn you. just walk to a sink and calmly rinse it off. get some in your eye and it will burn (oxidize) your eye, you will not be able to see where you are going. theres a reason they sell the 3% stuff at the supermarket.

so what does all this add up to for an internal combustion engine (to the best of my knowledge)?

i believe that the H202 will be ineffective because:

1. the bubbling bubbler will knock all the oxygen out of the H202 within a couple of hours and unless the container is sealed i seriously doubt that there would be enough to use for anything after one day. even one day of sitting.

2. the ammount of oxygen released is small.

3. the ammount of oxygen released will decrease over time as the useable oxygen is used. this will give varying/inconsistant results.

4. basicly you are trying to lean out the mix with extra oxygen. the mass air flow sensor (or whatever else is used) wont see this extra oxygen and wont change the ammount of fuel injected. so you have just tricked the computer to run slightly lean. but 1. 2. and 3. are working against you. also your cars computer will try to compensate because it will see a diffrence at the 02 sensor. if you tune for this stuff you would run extra lean when you fill up the H202 everyday because the stuff from yesterday is long gone. as the day goes on you would go from lean to where you tuned the engine and from that to rich. but only slightly. very slightly. same thing goes for cars with carbs, only diff. is there is no computer.

5. think about how much air your car gulps down just idling. there is not enough oxygen in H202 (at least in concentrations available to us) to do much with that.

6. hydrogen peroxide is not fuel it is an oxidizer (pretty much the oposite)

i think i forgot something but you get where im going. one way that i think would work would be to calculate how much oxygen you get from an oz. of X% H202, figgure out how much fuel it would take to burn that, add the fuel (i would choose alcahol) to the H202 (it will mix well). basicly this would be a power booster like N20 (nitrous oxide). you would inject the mix in liquid form into the intake (wherever you like) the hot intake will cause the alcahol to evaporate, the oxygen to seperate from the water and the water would boil (this would be esp. effective in a turbocharged engine as the water/alcahol would go a long way towards cooling the hot intake air). but i think nitrous would work better as a power booster.

in conclusion i believe that H202 dosent have much of a future in the fuel economy market. and very little future in the performance market.

please let me know if you have conflicting info.

thanks
nth

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hydrogen peroxide and alcohol

bemet's picture

1. 95% or purer H2O2 is rocket fuel by its self. It is injected across a silver screen as a catalyst. Powered Spirit of America Rocket car to world land speed record. Wikipedia has a couple good articles on it.
2. 35% H2O2 mixed with diesel equals JATO or JADO fuel. One gallon costs more than I spend to fill my truck so it is cost prohibitive to gain a few mpg in a diesel truck and it will try to melt the engine down from the inside with hard driving but it will increase power significantly. Experiment at your own risk.
3. I agree with you that it does not have much experimental value for us run of the mill additive experimenters.

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hydrogen peroxide and alcohol

whitevette's picture

Plus...there was a "small detail" in this H2O2 - powered car article : something about mixing / exposing (?) the peroxide to SILVER? Wow! Bring $ !

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